Barring such gems, I still suspect that most people get sucked into a lot of time-pass in the guise of actual service to the dharma, and that this is overall detrimental.
Related thread 1:
नापसंद · जवाब दें · 6 · 20 घंटे
VV:: RSS has made (and continues to make) great contributions to the hindu society – no denying that. But at what cost? (And *everything* has a cost.)In other words, I am not sure if we would be in a worse position without RSS. All that talent and frustration lulled into a false sense of security and accomplishment might have been doing something bolder and more worthwhile.
पसंद · जवाब दें · 16 घंटे · संपादित
SS:: RSS doesn’t ask you to resign from Google to be a svayamsevak. My father (a doctor) was jillaa bauddhik pramukh for quite some time. His cousin was a practising advocate in Chennai (now a High Court judge) and served as nagar kaaryavaah. These people …और देखें
पसंद · जवाब दें · 14 घंटे · संपादित
VV:: “RSS doesn’t ask you to resign from Google to be a svayamsevak. My father (a doctor) was jillaa bauddhik pramukh for quite some time. His cousin was a practising advocate in Chennai (now a High Court judge) and served as nagar kaaryavaah. These people didn’t (and don’t) waste their talent. Only a small fraction of svayamsevaks are full-time and most of their talent is to be social workers. ” -> I am not saying that not being a doctor or engineer or lawyer despite qualifications and talent in that area is the cost of RSS. Having gone to a few shAkhA-s and met quite a few prachArak-s I am aware that is not the case. The cost is something else.
Let me put it like this: What if all these people joined and contributed to some other organization in their free time? Suppose RSS was not there, what would they be doing? Say Hindu Munnaani or HMK or some mission specific group such as samskrita bhaaratii or that group of tamiL lawyers which specializes in litigating against the sickular government to fight misappropriation of temple property? Does being a svayamsevaka or a “jillaa bauddhik pramukh” or “nagar kaaryavaah” (with all their endless bhaiTak-s) fill one with misplaced satisfaction? To what extant does service to the organization translate into service to the society? 10:1?
“Even from the individual (rather than society) POV, RSS is like gurukula system for the masses in that it will teach you a lot of samskara-s you’d probably not learn otherwise…” – Sure, that peer-influence is to be acknowledged. But to a very limited degree for most people. (RSS schools and Ekal Vidyalaya do a good job there specially.) Lot of organizations do that – including the many baabaa-doms (real or fake).
Rather, the main benefit *was* that it provided a forum for people who cared about hindutva to get together and slightly increase the chance that they will meet someone who is as enthusiastic and bold as them about their particular projects (when one does not get frustrated by the platitude spouting mass or worse – deliberate stonewalling by the pipiilikaa-s). But that is more or less obviated by social media and meetup’s in this age.
पसंद · जवाब दें · 6 घंटे
VV:: Not to mention the (obvious) serious cost of being a prachaarak – almost always no gRhasthAshrama right when staunch hindu progeny is needed the most.
पसंद · जवाब दें · 5 घंटे
Related thread 2:
(Comments by one of the correspondents, Nihar, were deleted by him before they could be archived. However, relevant sections are quoted.)
PC:: Are you sure it is the motto of RSS also?
Also, perhaps they are the same idiots (who expected their talents to bloom for the good of the dharma in “the sangh”) who started organizations like Samskrita Bharati, BJP and hundreds others.
Perhaps you meant to point out the “mellow-ness” rather than “mediocrity and stupefied conformity”?
नापसंद · जवाब दें · 2 · 20 घंटे
VV:: In response to the first question: No, Pratik. Emblem may be? Or popular catch phrase? Whatever it may be, it is a way of lulling svayamsevak-s into thinking they are part of some shivAji’s army.
“Also, perhaps they are the same idiots (who expected their talents to bloom for the good of the dharma in “the sangh”) who started organizations like Samskrita Bharati, BJP and hundreds others.” – Note that this did not and cannot happen with the RSS. They had to seek out and collaborate with *many* non-RSS people.
“Perhaps you meant to point out the “mellow-ness” rather than “mediocrity and stupefied conformity”?” -> Definitely the latter. It is based on personal observations which I will not elaborate on for fear of offending people further other than to note a pervasive assertive self-assured groupthink.
पसंद · जवाब दें · 1 · 16 घंटे
VV:: “” Note that this did not and cannot happen with the RSS. They had to seek out and collaborate with *many* non-RSS people.” – have you talked to Krishnasastry ji to see if this theory of yours holds any water? Do you even have anecdotal evidence to corroborate this?” —->
Absolutely – anecdotal evidence. shrI kRShNashAstri is not the kind to give a striaght answer to such pointed questions, but that is in fact the case. (Udayana or Venkatesh Murthy, who have a lot of background may please correct me by providing contrary information.)
First to summarize how exactly RSS helped foster sanskrita bhAratI (by which I include its earlier 1981-birthed life as the Sanskrit wing of the Hindu Seva Pratishthanam).
* It is quite conceivable that the spirit of popular activism (reminiscent of HSS/ RSS sampark) that inspired kRShNashAstrI likely came from RSS (not that it would not have otherwise come from elsewhere). Some part of the organizational template (heavy dependence on volunteers for example) likely comes from RSS.
* The specific goal of sanskrit popularization came from his conversation with a senior RSS person. This is a personal influence, not an organizational influence.
* RSS provides and provided ready access to people who accomodate samskrita bhAratI people in their travels as part of their mission.
That’s it. RSS more or less is non committal (as usual) about sanskrit (or even Indian language) revival. No change in shAkhA format, no urging the svayamsevak-s to learn some sanskrit etc.. So, just focus on what *unique* things has RSS given in summary? The general volunteer-based activism template is the main contribution. Infrastructure (contacts and short term accommodation) support comes next. Even there, would these NOT have been available were it not for RSS? I daresay no. RSS is not the best (or only) template for volunteer based popular activism. It’s an old and persistent feature of Hindu samAja.
You have yourself acknowledged that they needed to collaborate with “new” people. Very true – this was essential. To reiterate this point – mahAbaleshvara bhaTTa? not from RSS. janArdhana hegde? not from RSS. HR Vishwas? Not from RSS.
“I see that lot of activists want to blame Sangh for “mediocrity”. Well I see that most Hindu activists (more so outside Sangh) are mediocre.” —> I must reiterate that this mediocrity is not central, but is a consequence of my main point of stupefaction and “opportunity cost” of the RSS (more below). It does not do to focus on the branches rather than the trunk.
“But Sangh of course is a easy punching bag.” —> It is not only an easy punching bag, but it ***has*** to be the primary punching bag, as it is forms the bulk of hindu activism today. The elephant cannot complain that birds around it aren’t getting as much (negative) attention.
The most important point is that: RSS is doing something right – it has ensured it’s own survival and propagation. But at the expense of other more potent modes of activism. Take this analogy: MK Gandhi’s popular movement reduced the attractiveness (by a great degree) of other modes of hindu activism (like RSS). In the very same way, RSS is having a definite negative effect on the growth of even firmer and better grounded modes of hindu activism.
It is like sticking lollypop into the mouths of a lot of people who actually want laDDu-s.
An ancilliary point is this:
Generally organizations with a specific goal (Ekal, Samskrita bhAratI, yoga-bhAratI, Art of Living etc..) accomplish far more than organizations with a vaguer and broader agenda (eg: RSS). The latter class, overall, diminishes interest in and competes with the former class.
पसंद · जवाब दें · 2 घंटे
VV:: And, to respond to ” You try to present it as if these people had to leave the fold of Sangh and get converted out of it (like a Christian conversion) to do all of that.” –
it is very much the case that they “leave” the RSS behind. How frequently do people heavily involved in these other organizations get the time or (more to the point) inclination to attend shAkhA or meetings? More often than not, they’ll be like “bah. whatever. I want to get real stuff done.”
पसंद · जवाब दें · 1 घंटा
VV:: Nihara, you are welcome to take my words seriously or not. I believe I’ve already done due diligence with regards to what I’ve stated here, but am happy to revise my understanding if new facts point otherwise.
(And, the last part of your response is an example of “argumentum ad homineim” http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/person.html, and is worthy of being disregarded. It is not very important if people are pissed off with HSS and its prominent defenders for whatever reason including but not limited to lack of basic courtesy.)
Argumentum Ad Hominem
The argument concerning the attack of a person’s character or circumstances is characterized and shown to be sometimes persuasive but normally fallacious.
पसंद · जवाब दें · समीक्षा को हटाएं · 44 मिनट · संपादित
VV:: That said, I would be remiss in not pointing out the “beat the nail that sticks out” attitude in the RSS/ HSS quoting your very words “while being pathetic and eccentric themselves”. This is exactly the kind of stupefaction that I speak about, where eccentricity is considered negative. मृगेन्द्रता my ass.
Further points from shrI Nihar:
Krishnashatry ji himself told this when he met us last time in Bay Area. Ask him why he goes to shakha. There might be something he thinks is important that you might be missing.
One more fact: Dinesh Kamat ji – a senior prachark was given to Sanskrit Bharati if you didn;t know that. He was Sanghatan mantri last I checked and was instrumental in many of the new initiatives of Sanskrit Bharati.
Suresh ji in Bangalore also was given to Sanskrit Bharati in Karnataka and last I heard he has returned to HSP after many years there. These are only a few examples, I am sure there are many in each state.
“K Suryanarayanrao ji, one of the senior most pracharaks was the president of Samskruta Bharati for a very long time while he still was Akhila Bharatiya Sewa Pramukh in RSS. I am indeed surprised you didn’t know any of that.”